Triangle fillet strengthening plate size swivel seat

Hi,

I'm about to cut out the back of my passenger seat metal bulkhead from my walkthrough early bay.

I've seen plenty of pictures of the conversion, but I've not found any details of the size of the plate required.

Does anybody have the dimensions of the plate?

Also, when cutting the bulkhead out, where is the best place to cut? Should I make the vertical cut along the B pillar from the passenger seat side or from the rear?

On the base section, Is the cut made above the lip of the seam of the two panels? If so, do you just hammer this seam flat & weld it onto the seat base for further strength?

Are the old seat runners easier to grind off or should I drill the spot welds?

Any recommendations on swivel seat bases?

All suggestions appreciated!

Hi There, This one comes up every so often on here and most people say ,, Don`t Do It,, The bus needed the strength of the bulkheads when they were new, but now they are forty plus years old, they need it even more. The problem isn`t just the initial strength of the bus but the side impact strength as well. Without one or both of those bulkheads, the bus would just collapse with a side impact.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It`s just not worth the risk

I had mine removed and plates welded in from the B pillar to the tub. I could take some measurements/photos for you 2mo for reference.
I'm in the minority and prefer my bus without its bulkheads. Fitting swivel hopefully very soon!!

I understand what you're saying about the strength, but those bulkheads are pretty tinny and surely can't hold that much strength?

I'd like to see the photos & measurements please.

I've actually considered building a 1 1/2 inch roll cage loop into the space & welding it to the b posts & floor.

Here some pics & measurements unfortunately trimmed but you get the idea..









Some decide to cut straight across the tub I chose to follow profile...



I think in hindsight should of gone straight would look neater when swivel is in...

Hope that helps... Ben

Don't forget that technically your van will need a BIVA test as you've made a structural modification

I wouldn't do it - there's probably a surprising amount of rigidity added by that 'flimsy' bulkhead pressing and bar.

In fairness, I'd love mine without the bulkheads, but I would never bring myself to do it.

Excellent!

Thank you very much for the pictures and details.

I've found an old thread on the type2 forum about the same thing. Somebody contacted VW asking if they could modify the bulkhead from a walk through model and add the fillet section, their reply was along the lines of - the vehicle was heavily over engineered and providing the strengthener was fitted it was fine.

Unfortunately, I can't now get onto type2.com to link the article.

Obviously, I've not seen any letter from VW and this has come from a forum member, so it could equally be a load of old blarney!

There is also VOSA clarification on what's allowed as far as modifications to a chassis. It goes into detail about bulkheads and their mods, but again it doesn't say you can't do it, it simply says the vehicle may loose it's previous identity and require reregistering.

Manxfella said:

There is also VOSA clarification on what's allowed as far as modifications to a chassis. It goes into detail about bulkheads and their mods, but again it doesn't say you can't do it, it simply says the vehicle may loose it's previous identity and require reregistering.

Click to expand...

And if that is the case, it'd need to meet ALL the current standards in the BIVA manual. Which an early bay won't, as standard. I'd imagine it should be possible to make it comply, however.

Chances are you won't get caught, certainly not in the next year or two. Just making sure you're aware before you dive in

So are owners of modified vehicles at risk of failing the MOT?

How would this otherwise be highlighted?

Do insurance companies make demands?

Manxfella said:

So are owners of modified vehicles at risk of failing the MOT?

How would this otherwise be highlighted?

Do insurance companies make demands?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately,, this type of thing would maybe make it through an MOT because of the lack of info available on old busses. The insurance companies do require from you a declaration that the vehicle is not modified from standard which you will always agree to if you want insurance from them, if a bus folds up in an accident I don`t think the insurance company would be very forgiving when they find out the bulkheads have been modified, especially if it was a large claim or if there were a serious injury or worse. But that is painting the blackest picture. I would never forgive myself if any of my friends or family came to grief through something like this, especially if I`d been warned by others. My initial thought on getting a bay was exactly this, to rip out and go swivel, but I had second thoughts. It`ll never happen to me or I won`t get caught just don`t cut it with me.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Sorry to be a downer.

Westfalia cut them out on later busses, I'm sure looking at how many busses they sold they'd have fully looked into it.

sjhjoinery said:

Westfalia cut them out on later busses, I'm sure looking at how many busses they sold they'd have fully looked into it.

Click to expand...

Do you think they may have fitted full bellypans as partial compensation, and it is a slightly different setup on the later dudes too. Plus they is newer :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,, :mrgreen:

The VW Type 2 Owners Club contacted VW about the removal of bulkheads, here's what the Volkswagen (Wolfsburg) Technical Department had to say about removing the seat bulkhead.

" In principle the bulkhead may be removed, but as we do not know the general condition of the vehicle (possible damage by corrosion) we consider it absolutely necessary to insert some reinforcing between the B pillar and the floor.
This reinforcing to be an L shaped bracket, locally manufactured from at least 1mm thick steel plate with legs of 15 to 20cm long. Adapt to contours and weld to B pillar and floor"
Source : VWT2OC briefing sheet No 65 " removing a bulkhead "

For the 1976 -1979 MY VW did produce buses without bulkheads, but only in Deluxe minibuses (Chassis no. 2162 078 000 onwards, M Code 690); the strengthening which replaced the bulkhead was an L shaped bracket 250mm long on each leg, 20mm wide and 8mm thick at the corner tapering to 4mm thick at the ends. This bracket goes up the door pillar and out across the rear upper edge of the seat pedestal.

Thanks Sparkywig, that's what I was looking for.

Do you have access to briefing sheet No 65 or ideally the letter from VW? It would be interesting to read the full version and would save the worry of VOSA.

The reference talks about the bracket being welded along the B pillar & floor. Do they mean the seat pedestal or the floor?

Does anybody have any pictures of the later 250mm bracket? If it was fitting from 76 - 79, there must be plenty still about.