Why's my crew so slow?

[Monster966]

Had a go up the strip @ Volksfest yesterday, I was hoping for something close to an 18 so I could aim at gettin into the USB. Boy was I dissappointed, not to mention a little embarrassed beaten by a bloody smart car!!! wouldn't run any thing other than a 21 dead. Off the line 1st & 2nd is fine but stick it in 3rd & wait. Didn't matter if I ran only in 3rd or change into 4th early or later still ran 21 dead @ a whole 58/59mph, impressed NOT!

It's got a 1776 built by the engine shop with an engle110, twin 40's, pertronix, solid state fuel pump, a reasonable exhaust system, full flow oil system with an external cooler & fan. It runs a 6 rib gearbox & 195-60 tyres. What do you lot reckon it should do?? But mainly how do I lose those 3 seconds???

 

[Loxy]

What sort of heads, rocker ratio, compression ratio etc is it running ? have you done a compression test on it?
Was it all balanced? what revs do you change up at?
What type & condition is the clutch? not slipping is it?
Carb jetting/choke sizes - has it been rolling roaded?
I assume its well serviced - timing, valve clearances, plug gaps, correct dwell etc - (is the pertronix correctly fitted with correct gap)?
I dont suppose the gearbox helps - wont the longer gear(s) make it slower (is it only 4th or are the others different as well from a 1600 box?)

Having said all the above - you are trying to accelerate a brick shaped object so it maybe thats all it can do? Alex4057 on here has a 1776 I believe & hes in USB so I guess its possible but maybe his is more highly tuned - bigger carbs, valves, cam etc?

Or maybe its just upset because I called it a cross-dresser in the London Volksfest thread :lol:

 

[Loxy]

Alex4057s van here (if you dont already know it):
http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11938" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Rikki James]

Dude, with all due respect I very much doubt you will run a USB qualifying time with a 1776 in your bus,
unless of course it will rev to hell and beyond. You would also need some serious modifications to the
heads/compression ratio's etc and probably a close ratio gear box just to make sure!

No one in the BWA runs anything smaller than an 1835cc motor, even then they only just managed a 17.9800.

Glad to see your having it on the strip though, good lad

C ya........Rikki

 

[faux]

Did the T2D 'Linde' bus run a sub 18 with a 1600 (far from stock)?

I could be very wrong on this and Rikki knows his BWA's 8)

Size isn't everything....says the short guy :shock:

 

[holmsen]

The 091 imo is what holding you back,,that gearbox needs a mutch bigger engine to get the bus moving fast off the green light.
try to get hold of a 002 box, i have tryed them both with the same engine,a t4 2056, did a 17,62 with the 002,not even close to make it with the 091.

 

[scott wilson]

totally agree with the previous comment.....a six rib box is not for a 1776 engine...they are desirable because they are pretty bulletproof but you need some serious horse power to make that baby work. Try dropping to a 1600 box and watch at least a second come off the time. I`ve run a 2.1 type 4 on a 1600 box for street in a bay doka and it works well

 

[Monster966]

Blimey chaps I'll bin the lot & start again :lol:

Heads I need to go check on the info I was given, not done a compression check but I doubt it's that as it runs fairly well on the road, speedo means nothing with the rubber bands on the front, but it's quite happy running with the traffic on the motorway & I've had it round to the V in VDO. Balancing I doubt it had more than static done but again I'll check (got to find the info, it's 'somewhere safe' you know )
Changing up at 5500, tried 5000 but it made no difference. No clutch slip. Carb jetting I reckon is suspect, on the rich side All the normal service checks I need to do now as it's due a service anyway, but again I'd say it runs too well to be far out on anything. I know never assume, but I been around a bit & driven all sorts of crap in my time & you know when somethings just isn't right.
Apparently there's a weber guy with a rolling road near me, I shall be paying a visit once I've done the basic service.

Hi Rikki, don't burst my bubble so swiftly dude, there I was all happy & you have to be all realistic on me :roll:

I reckon the gearbox is a fair bit of it but on the road it makes it that much nicer to live with. There was quite a good head wind as well, that's my racers excuse done :!: Bigger power eventually is the way to do it, I'll start saving!

Just seen your comment Scot, would I have to change anything else to put a 1600 box in? How much difference will it make on the road & have you got a good one laying around

I'm off to check out Alex4057's thread now.

Steve

 

[5erge]

What about a short throw gear lever (Berg,CSP), surely that would shave some time with less expense?

BTW I drive a Smart car and they can be pretty rapid if you get the rev's/gear change just right. Takes about 1.5 seconds to change gear though.... 0-60 in about 14/15 seconds.. So nothing to be ashamed of.

Des

 

[young_dubya]

totally agree with the previous comment.....a six rib box is not for a 1776 engine...they are desirable because they are pretty bulletproof but you need some serious horse power to make that baby work. Try dropping to a 1600 box and watch at least a second come off the time. I`ve run a 2.1 type 4 on a 1600 box for street in a bay doka and it works well

I dunno dude, jesus is running a 1776 and a six rib and managing 17's i think. its torque you need (just to be picky ) as well not power, power only comes in to play at higher speeds. sounds like the engines components are a good combo, maybe go for an engle 100 rather than a 110 on a bus for a little more down lower. other than that you are talking blueprinting. the real nitty gritty bits such as ports, valves, valve jobs, manifolds, tuning, tappets, balance etc etc...... means striping it and doing proper :mrgreen:

 

[young_dubya]

just read rikkis post and thought id check up on the USB to make sure i was right about Alexs bus. I WAS :mrgreen:

Alex (aka Jesus) (4)
'69 deluxe
VW air-cooled 1776cc
17.13

 

[Clem]

Did the T2D 'Linde' bus run a sub 18 with a 1600 (far from stock)?

I could be very wrong on this and Rikki knows his BWA's 8)

Size isn't everything....says the short guy :shock:

AFAIK it never 'quite' made sub 18, but was only just short of the mark ... certainly as close as matters for this arguement!

I could be wrong though ....

 

[VeeDubMan]

It's got a 1776 built by the engine shop with an engle110, twin 40's, pertronix, solid state fuel pump, a reasonable exhaust system, full flow oil system with an external cooler & fan. It runs a 6 rib gearbox & 195-60 tyres. What do you lot reckon it should do?? But mainly how do I lose those 3 seconds???

I'd go for an Engle 100 for a bit more torque and I reckon those 60 profiles aren't doing your top-speed any favours. Get something a little taller on there for a bit more mph. Plug your gearbox/tyre details into a gearbox calc to get an idea of what changes can be made. Take a look at http://www.customspeedparts.de/content/en/technic/getriebeberechnung3.php and click on '>For the calculation'.

 

[Rikki James]

Sorry fella but you did ask

Blimey chaps I'll bin the lot & start again :lol:

Heads I need to go check on the info I was given, not done a compression check but I doubt it's that as it runs fairly well on the road, speedo means nothing with the rubber bands on the front, but it's quite happy running with the traffic on the motorway & I've had it round to the V in VDO. Balancing I doubt it had more than static done but again I'll check (got to find the info, it's 'somewhere safe' you know )
Changing up at 5500, tried 5000 but it made no difference. No clutch slip. Carb jetting I reckon is suspect, on the rich side All the normal service checks I need to do now as it's due a service anyway, but again I'd say it runs too well to be far out on anything. I know never assume, but I been around a bit & driven all sorts of crap in my time & you know when somethings just isn't right.
Apparently there's a weber guy with a rolling road near me, I shall be paying a visit once I've done the basic service.

Hi Rikki, don't burst my bubble so swiftly dude, there I was all happy & you have to be all realistic on me :roll:

I reckon the gearbox is a fair bit of it but on the road it makes it that much nicer to live with. There was quite a good head wind as well, that's my racers excuse done :!: Bigger power eventually is the way to do it, I'll start saving!

Just seen your comment Scot, would I have to change anything else to put a 1600 box in? How much difference will it make on the road & have you got a good one laying around

I'm off to check out Alex4057's thread now.

Steve

 

[Monster966]

Veedubman- top speed is fine cruises quite happily well past the legal limit, anyway it's the acceleration I want & taller tyres would make that worse plus & even more importantly it would raise the back up a bit.... a big no no for me :roll: I shall go try the calculator though.

Young dubya- Jesus has a much stronger motor than mine, maybe I'll swap it when he's not looking

5erge- got a shift kit on it & it works fairly well, don't think it's going to save me much of the 3+ seconds I'd like :lol:

I reckon the big thing is the box but I'm not willing to lose the road manners for the 1/4 mile, so until I can afford a big **** off motor it'll have to stay how it is.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Steve

 

[Graham L]

Veedubman- anyway it's the acceleration I want & taller tyres would make that worse plus & even more importantly it would raise the back up a bit.... a big no no for me :roll:
Steve

Steve

Sorry perhaps I'm being thick but why would taller tyres make it worse?, most of the USB boys run big rear tyres to get the drive down and the bigger the wheel the greater distance you travel for each revolution of the drive shaft, surely thats going to improve acceleration. Drag cars always have big rear tyres :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[young_dubya]

smaller tyres improve acceleration. this comes from the reduced amount of torque needed to turn the wheels, there will be an optimum for speed/acceleration over the 1/4mile. have a look at what the bus boys are running on the strip you will find that many of them will be on simlilar sizes. remember to aim for something that suits your engine/box lay out and you may well get a sliver of what you wish for :mrgreen:

 

[Monster966]

Hi Graham

Most drag cars have just a tad more power to turn those big tyres, that's why the fastest dragsters have the biggest tyres. I don't have big power, well I don't appear to have much power at all :lol: It is also true that turning the larger wheel is easier, just look at bicycle gears, but for what I want to do the change to larger tyres isn't going to make enough difference lose the look. I'll worry about the speed when I can afford it.

Steve