Vehicle provenance.

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Trikky2

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As a result of reading quite a few threads over the years, both on here and on Vzi, rather than hijack one of those threads, I thought I would start a new one.

I dont understand (and am astonished) by the casual attitude of some owners and buyers toward vehicle identity.

I accept that back in the old days, when these buses were old bangers, worth barely more than their weigh in value, it did not really have that much significance but that was years ago.

Nice buses these days are fetching anywhere between £8000 and £16000 and, with relatively high value vehicles that are fairly easy to steal and numerous enough to hide and change identity, its not surprising that significant thefts are also being reported.

On the other hand threads keep cropping up with owners asking for vehicle identification, vin plates and chassis numbers.

Stories of "oh the part with the chassis number on it was rusty and was replaced" whilst, coincidentally, the vin plate also fell off, was lost during a re-spray, was captured by aliens or whatever.

Anybody going to so much trouble restoring their vehicle would surly want to protect its identity and its security? If it were to be stolen how would it look if the owner reported to the police the vehicle had no chassis number for instance?

I'm sorry but to me this comes over the same way as a pupil claiming to the teacher the reason theres no homework to show was because the dog ate it.

In the very rare cases it may be necessary to replace a section with the chassis number on it, it seems to me that it would be normal to ensure its documented, verified and the number then re-stamped into the chassis.

I was wondering if I was the only one to have issues regarding this kind of thing and what others felt.
 
I agree and understand with what your saying but I'll be honest I've never thought about it myself. I should do really :-/
 
Trikky2 said:
I was wondering if I was the only one to have issues regarding this kind of thing and what others felt.


No you're not.
It seems surprisingly easy to convince an owner that the chassis numbers and VIN plates were replaced/lost during restoration work.
I wonder how many clones are out there.....
 
As usual Trikky , you just pop up a very casual looking thread ;) but very thought provoking, making you perhaps think about how many busses we`re driving around in that have been `recycled ' for want of a better word :shock: Not until I read that thread had I considered the possibilities of busses with new identities. If every person on this EarlyBay site checked thouroughly right through the bus, where would we look exactly and what would we look at ? I`m now wondering how many would turn up with a lost identity ? What would you have to do if something didn`t check out properly, and what would happen to your bus ? So where do we start ?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,, :? :? :?
 
Appologies for going slighty off topic, but my bus certainly has lost its original identity. For whatever reason, at some point whilst in the States, the chassis plate was removed and the section of chassis with the number on, hacked out!

DSCF0772.jpg


It was then returned to the road and had a replacement ID plate issued by the DMV in Maryland. This is rivited to the bulkhead behind the passenger seat.

DSCF0771.jpg


I have several registration renewal notices issued by the DMV in Sacramento which show the replacement ID, so am sure that all is above board. Why the original identification was removed I don't know. It has been suggested that it is common practice over there when a vehicle is scrapped or maybe it was stolen at some point?

Back on topic, whilst busses are a prime target for 'identity re-assignment', I'm sure plenty of other older/classic vehicles are open to such practices. Several years ago I sold a '62 105E and the buyer made it fairly obvious that once he had sold the reg number from the car, it's identity would be changing so he could use another valuable reg number from a scrap vehicle.
I've no idea how much 'ringing' goes on with modern vehicles these days, maybe those involved are looking at vehicles such as ours now?
 
good thoughts trikky - I've looked into mine and just made sure that they all matched but need to do more, provenience should reflect on value like anything with a history but unless people are clued up then I would imagine it won't be part of negotiation - I suppose as the number of buses decreases those that are left will be more closely inspected, it happens automatically with other marques - matching numbers e.t.c. increase values significantly!
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this then.

Those vehicles that get posted up on the forums, when they are stolen, must be going somewhere. I suppose some might be broken for parts but quite a few have been really good quality and therefore have a high value - hence it seems unlikely to me that they would be broken up and dismantled.

Pete B - yes I agree its certainly a problem not just confined to our vehicles.
The story on your officially re issued chassis plate is something I have not heard of before. Quite remarkable. I wonder if any of our forum members from the US may be able to shed some light on this practice? I would be interested to know more.
 

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