Dilemma...do I fit a new starter motor or not?

[Baldrick]

Hi all

I've had a few starting issues lately and having had a dig around on this and other sites it seems I have the "hot start issue" where the power drop of old wiring is just enough to stop the starter turning. I also think that the dynamo is contributing to this as it just doesn't seem to be charging.

Because of the dynamo issue I'm going to get an alternator conversion and the guy dong it for me thinks its easier to drop the engine out to do it. I'll get a "hot start" relay fitted at the same time to give a bit of a helping hand. The question is do I put a new starter on while the engine is out. (My lack of mechanic ability is no secret so this is way beond me to do...I will have to pay for someone to do it.)

Thinking is that the additional cost of doing this while the engine is out is not great, but if it later becomes necessary then it will cost more to do...

Dilemma...what should I do?

 

[Doris]

if you are 100% convinced the starter is A1,leave it be.however,....its not a difficult job,just a couple of bolts,so if you think your starter may be contributing to the problem then for what its worth,defo change it,I agree that if it needs doing/will need replacing soon,its best to do it while the lump is on the floor.

hth

 

[Sydney1]

Also worth checking the clutch plates while the engine is out. They are also not too expensive to replace. I'm sure others will also have suggestions for other jobs to consider doing....

 

[froggy]

A hot start issue is not completely caused by the starter more to do with the starter motor solenoid which can be changed on its own (and alot cheaper than a complete starter). Another thing to do is change the brass bush that the starter motor sits in.

With regards to the alternator conversion i agree, its a lot easier to do with the engine on the floor as you can get round it, it is possible to do in situ but for what it takes to remove the engine why struggle

 

[creationblue]

Hi Mate

The hot start issue, is basically that the motor will start a treat when cold and spin quite happily on the starter, but once warm and you try and start it the starter turns so slow that the engine wont fire. The Resistance in the cables that run from the battery up front thru the ignition switch then back down to the solenoid on the starter is increased so you dont get the full voltage to the starter. If you have these symptoms then a relay is what you need 8)

I did this a while back after changing the starter, its a fairly easy job if not a bit fiddly to get you hand round the tin wear :roll: . The relay allows you to take a cable from the battery directly to the solenoid (about 18"s away) and uses the existing wiring just to switch the coil that puts the voltage to the solenoid via the new cable. Any help just ask, but it was the single most useful thing i did to my van. Was no fun planning your stops around letting things cool enough to get started again :lol:

Just

 

[Pete B]

Hi Mate

The hot start issue, is basically that the motor will start a treat when cold and spin quite happily on the starter, but once warm and you try and start it the starter turns so slow that the engine wont fire. The Resistance in the cables that run from the battery up front thru the ignition switch then back down to the solenoid on the starter is increased so you dont get the full voltage to the starter. If you have these symptoms then a relay is what you need 8)

Sorry, but I disagree. To fit a relay is only to mask the original problem. They came from Hanover without a relay and even with a bit of extra compression (Baldrick) if the system is in good condition there is no need to mess about in that way.
40 year old cable can have deteriorated, the connections will be dirty at every point, (starter, solenoid, switch, ground etc)
Go through these, renew as needed, charge the battery properly and all should be ok, if not then get an exchange starter motor and renew the bush in the bellhousing. The German engineers are damn good. Do it properly, do it once, do it right.
I do not see that fitting a relay in this case is the right thing to do.

 

[creationblue]

Hi Mate

The hot start issue, is basically that the motor will start a treat when cold and spin quite happily on the starter, but once warm and you try and start it the starter turns so slow that the engine wont fire. The Resistance in the cables that run from the battery up front thru the ignition switch then back down to the solenoid on the starter is increased so you dont get the full voltage to the starter. If you have these symptoms then a relay is what you need 8)

Sorry, but I disagree. To fit a relay is only to mask the original problem. They came from Hanover without a relay and even with a bit of extra compression (Baldrick) if the system is in good condition there is no need to mess about in that way.
40 year old cable can have deteriorated, the connections will be dirty at every point, (starter, solenoid, switch, ground etc)
Go through these, renew as needed, charge the battery properly and all should be ok, if not then get an exchange starter motor and renew the bush in the bellhousing. The German engineers are damn good. Do it properly, do it once, do it right.
I do not see that fitting a relay in this case is the right thing to do.

Pete of course you are correct in what you say, but for most people all the work involved in renewing wires and connectors, lets face it, is not an easy task. The bellhousing bush if im not mistaken is an engine out job, and a simple cost effective fix is to fit a relay. If like Pete your a perfectionist then please do follow his advice 8)

Just

 

[Pete B]

Pete of course you are correct in what you say, but for most people all the work involved in renewing wires and connectors, lets face it, is not an easy task. The bellhousing bush if im not mistaken is an engine out job, and a simple cost effective fix is to fit a relay. If like Pete your a perfectionist then please do follow his advice 8)
Just

Know where your coming from mate, but at the end of the day either it is right or it's not. The factory system works, if it fails then fix the fault. If only I followed my own advice then I would not have the on-going hassles that I do myself!!!! :lol:

 

[creationblue]

Pete of course you are correct in what you say, but for most people all the work involved in renewing wires and connectors, lets face it, is not an easy task. The bellhousing bush if im not mistaken is an engine out job, and a simple cost effective fix is to fit a relay. If like Pete your a perfectionist then please do follow his advice 8)
Just

Know where your coming from mate, but at the end of the day either it is right or it's not. The factory system works, if it fails then fix the fault. If only I followed my own advice then I would not have the on-going hassles that I do myself!!!! :lol:

:lol:

 

[Baldrick]

Hi guys

Thanks for the comments. I think I'll go for a belt and braces approach as I'm going on holiday in the bus and I really don't want too many issues while I'm away.

I'm really not convinced that I do need a new starter motor...but what the heck...its only money :?. The kids won't thank me for trying to save a few quid if we end up stuck on the side of the road.

Appreciate the discussion...

 

[stodge]

Well yes fitting a realy goes against what VW originally put there......true

funny how on there next back to basics design...the T25 they put a relay in the starter circuit, now why did they do that when the old system without a realy was so perfectly designed?

If your vans an original showpeice don't do it. If its a much loved slogged about old beast that has had more tweaks and changes than you can wave a stick at anyway, do it.

its your bus, i went for the relay myself cos i don't like rolling around in puddles with a hammer

 

[creationblue]

Well yes fitting a realy goes against what VW originally put there......true

funny how on there next back to basics design...the T25 they put a relay in the starter circuit, now why did they do that when the old system without a realy was so perfectly designed?

If your vans an original showpeice don't do it. If its a much loved slogged about old beast that has had more tweaks and changes than you can wave a stick at anyway, do it.

its your bus, i went for the relay myself cos i don't like rolling around in puddles with a hammer

I rest my case :lol:

Just