Early Bay Differences

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dropgates

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This is a list I have compiled that shows the main differences between 68-71 early bays. As for the 72 Crossover year, my knowledge there is very little to add it to any of the comparisions. If I have missed anything, please feel free to add on.

BODY

There are only a few differences concerning the bodies of the 68-71's. Most noticibly is that 71's had the rear flares, while 68-70 did not. The driver and passenger doors of the 68-69 are different than the 70-71's because they lack a support cross-member inside the door itself which causes the metal to crack in the middle sill area. 68 driver and passenger doors also have the hole for the early push down style door lock. 68 and 69's each have a different splash pan (underneath the pedal cluster)...they are longer going front to back while 70-71 are much shorter. The 68-69 inner front panels in the nose are similar to the late splits, while 70-71's are different. Reason being is that the 70-71 frame rails have an extra chassis member that flanges to the inner panel. It looks looks somewhat like a "Y" when looking from underneath. VW considered this an upgrade in safety standards if ever in a head on collision. 68-69's are straight just like the late splits.
In the rear, 68's had fuel tanks that were exposed like the splits until Dec./Jan. 68, then were switched to the 69-71 style which had them hidden behind the firewall. As for the rear engine apron, 68-69's had amendments for two bolt holes on either side, while 70-71 only had one on each side.
This fairly sums up the body differences.

EXTERIOR COMPONENTS

Only differences here was that 68-69 had round orange side markers up front and round red side markers in the rear. The rubber backing for the rear red ones are extremely hard to find in good condition these days. As for the 70-71's, the front had rectangular yellowish side markers while the rear were also rectangular, but were red with a silver trim and were illuminated by a small side marker bulb that was wired into the tail lights.
68 had one year only wiper arms, wiper shafts, motor and bracket. 69-71 were generally the same. 68 also had push button style door handles which were similar to the splits, while 69-71 had the trigger style door handles. The door locks for the 68's were one year only also while 69-71 remained the same. Front/rear bumpers and rear splash pans remained them same throughout these years also.

INTERIOR COMPONENTS

In the interior, 68-69 had long base mirrors, and each were different. 68 had a long chrome base while 69's had a long molded white plastic base. 70-71's had the short style base and were done in the same molded white plastic. 68-69 visors were also different from the 70-71's. The early ones were longer up top due to the added space that was created from the long rear view base. The 70-71's were shorter because of the short base style.68 also had one year only inner door handles with no apparent pull-lock because it was on top of the door. 68-69 had different dashes and dash pads than the 70-71's. 68-69 dash pads had a "high face" above the dash cluster, while 70-71's was short and not as steep.
Now as for dashes, here I'm referring to the US Spec padded dashes whilst most of you guys got lucky and had the nice shiny all metal dashes.
68-69 dashes were different because they had a small partition where the ignition swich housing met the dash. 70-71's did not have this partition. Reason is is that 68-69 ignition switch housing had a small lip where it met the dash, while 70-71 was flat. As for the ignition switch itself, 68-69 were different than the 70-71's. On the 68-69's you inserted the key in a vertical position, started your bus and it went back to the vertical position. For the 70-71's you inserted your key in a horizontal position, turned your bus over and it returned to the horizontal position. Also found out on 7/28/07 that 71 ignition switches are impossible to get out of the housing due to a weird bearing system inside...go figure. Neat, huh?
I could go over the differences in turn signal switches, but then that could lead to more wiring differences and that right there is the reason we all should own a Bentley Manual :)...EDIT: Discovered today that 68 has two extra long wires which go down to the turn signal lights, and have push on style connectors. The only big difference I will say though is that 68-69 had different main wiring looms than 70-71...enough said. But, you know that black metal piece that is on the steering wheel column that you screw your turn signal switch to? Yep, 68-69's are different than the 70-71's. The metal piece on the column has two threaded holes to accept 2 phillips head machine screws. 68-69's have smaller holes for smaller screws and the 70-71's had slightly larger holes for slightly larger screws. Another note of difference is the steering column support bracket. The 68-69 support bracket was a 2-piece unit, more slender and curved, while the 70-71 support bracket was wider and more flat.
A friend recently told me that the front seats for a 68-69 are different than the 70-71's... at least in the walk-through models, but I wouldn't doubt it would also go for non-walk-through models also. He said that the top of the 68-69 seat backs were mostly all padding with a small metal seat frame bar while the 70-71 seat back tops had a larger metal bar in there. Also, the 68-70 fresh air vent "trees" were the same...they had a pinch weld seam in the front, while 71- had 2 small bumps above and below the lever control arm.

BRAKES AND SUSPENSION

The most obvious and notable difference with the brakes is the 71's were the first to have front disc brakes. The front drums and shoes on the 68-70 were all the same. Rear drums and shoes were the same on 68-70, but 71 had one year only rear brake shoes. As far as the master cylinders, 68-69 shared the same M.C., 70 was a one year only and 71 had the M.C. with the servo on it, which ran up to 74. I know that the brake light switches had some differences from 68-69 to 70-71 and hopefully I can update this at a later date. As for the brake fluid filler reservoir, 68 was a one year only. It was flat (vertically) with some curves on the sides. 69-70 were the same and 71 was somewhat squarish and was reatined behind the front seat while 68-69 was located generally in the front left drivers kick panel. 71's also had the brake proportioning valve, which was due to the discs and was changed to a different stlye in 73. With the disc brakes, the 71- also had a different metal brake line set-up than the 68-70.
The 68-70 front beams were the same, with 71 having the brake servo bracket welded on it and a different bolt mounting pattern to it. I have heard that 70 also has the same mounting pattern, so I will measure my 70 Westy and compare it with a 71 beam I have to see if it's the same.
68-70 front spindles are the same, with 71 being different due to the disc brakes. Also, 68-69 have the same front upper and lower front torsion arms, while the lower torsion arms on the 70 -71 have a different size/length mounting stud for the lower shock mount. My friend and I found this out last year when he tried to install a set of nice adjustable Koni's on his 69...the insert on the lower shock mount was too big and we didn't have enough space to thread the nut onto the stud.
In the rear, the only difference is the aforementioned 71 only brake shoes and the stub axles. 68-70 had longer stub axles and 71- had shorter stub axles.
As for rims, 68-70 had 14 inch 5 X 205 (also known as wide fives) while the 71's- had the 5 X 112 pattern. I will need to check and update on the size of the 71- rims. 68-70 had the "moon" style hubcaps, while 71- had the more slender hubcaps with the centers having a small lip and the VW insignia.

It's late, so I will continue more tomorrow night on the differences in the Early Bays.

Strongy my mate....fetch me a beer, God willing....
 
Also
68 cab doors werent ventilated
68 Opening quarterlight catched are fixed differently
68 Speedo odometers are below the needle, not above
68 beam mountings are different to 69 onwards, and also have no steering damper
68 flasher units are a one-off affair

Any more? :)
 
Removable rear valences? Am i right in thinking these were only on vans 67 - 71 and not on Crossovers? i.e. stopping on a J plate.

There are lots of differences with people buying vans and redoing them with the small rear lights and half moons etc, this is one area where most people slip up and cannot hide the fact.

I have noticed this at a few shows now. So am pretty sure there are a few new early, early bays out there that were once crossovers. 8) sneeky sneeky!
 
68 had both an early and late transmission style. I believe the early had studs at the side cover and the later had threaded holes. It's early, my terminology may be a bit off.
68-69 shared the same fuse box, 70 was mustard color and had a few more openings on the fuse block, 71 was off whitish with the same amount of openings as the 70. 68-69 had clear fuse box covers and 70-71 didn't have covers at all.
 
easy said:
Removable rear valences? Am i right in thinking these were only on vans 67 - 71 and not on Crossovers? i.e. stopping on a J plate.

There are lots of differences with people buying vans and redoing them with the small rear lights and half moons etc, this is one area where most people slip up and cannot hide the fact.

I have noticed this at a few shows now. So am pretty sure there are a few new early, early bays out there that were once crossovers. 8) sneeky sneeky!

Dropgates - do you know anything about the removeable rear valences?
 
Removeable rear valences were only up to '71.

'72 is the first year of fixed valences, as they changed the rear end to accomodate the larger T4 engines. Hence the larger vents, different shaped tinwear (on T1 engines) and different shaped rear valence.

8)
 
Easy, the 68-71 rear valences were removable like the splits. Over here we call them rear aprons. I have something on them at the end of the Body section.

Cheers
 
'67, '68 front chassis rails are smaller in section.
Don't know if this applies to the whole chassis tho.
 
dropgates said:
In the rear, 68's had fuel tanks that were exposed like the splits...69-71 had them hidden behind the firewall. As for the rear engine apron, 68-69's had amendments for two bolt holes on either side, while 70-71 only had one on each side.
This fairly sums up the body differences.

Mine has 2 bolt holes on the back "apron" so does that mean its a 69 by design. It was made early on in 190 apparently so maybe it could have been 69! who knows! :roll:
 
not sure on the whole chassis but the front and rear cross members are defanatly diferent,i moded mine from late bay ,but since, ive heard that split cross members fit 67s/68s

i sent the beer in the post,did you not recive it? :lol:
 
strongy said:
not sure on the whole chassis but the front and rear cross members are defanatly diferent,i moded mine from late bay ,but since, ive heard that split cross members fit 67s/68s]

I used splitty top hat sect'ns and cross members, thicker steel even in repro form....

Can I have some beer too :wink:
 
Clem said:
Also
68 cab doors werent ventilated
68 Opening quarterlight catched are fixed differently
68 Speedo odometers are below the needle, not above
68 beam mountings are different to 69 onwards, and also have no steering damper
68 flasher units are a one-off affair

Any more? :)

'68s do have a steering damper, mine does at least and it is the original beam.

'68s have no symbols on the warning dash warning lights.

It was said somewhere else in this thread that '68s have no fueltank firewall, mine does.
 
speedwell68 said:
'68s do have a steering damper, mine does at least and it is the original beam.

'68s have no symbols on the warning dash warning lights.

It was said somewhere else in this thread that '68s have no fueltank firewall, mine does.

I'm curious to know if there were differences in the European and US markets...I looked at over a dozen early and late 68's this past weekend (panels, deluxes, westies) and none of them had a firewall to hide the fuel tank.

Inquiring minds want to know more about this... :)
 
For example...my friend Nick's mid-68 Deluxe. Notice the fuel tank behind the fan shroud.

287978.jpg
 
Mine's the same, no fuel tank fire wall, feb '68 bus RHD.
I'm a bit confused on the sunvisors too :?

http://www.gerbelmann.de/changes/index.en.html

From this then mine's got later visors in :?: and it looks like there are 3 different types...
 
guys, mine is a RHD March '69 but built Dec '68 (20D on the M code plate) and there is no fuel tank firewall. Also, you might be interested to know that originally my van had the long interior mirror with chrome arm and the large sun visors but when I was spending 6 months touring round Europe in 1980 I found that the mirror was obstructing the view of oncoming traffic as it was positioned about half way down the windscreen, it annoyed me so much that I robbed a later mirror and sun visor from a scrap late bay van in Switzerland somewhere and threw away the nice original mirror and visors - wish I had kept them !! :cry:
Its all interesting stuff though !
 
speedwell68 said:
'68s do have a steering damper, mine does at least and it is the original beam.

I got that wrong .... :oops:
 
Snakey said:
Mine's the same, no fuel tank fire wall, feb '68 bus RHD.
I'm a bit confused on the sunvisors too :?

http://www.gerbelmann.de/changes/index.en.html

From this then mine's got later visors in :?: and it looks like there are 3 different types...

Yes, visors were 68, 69 and the stayed the same from 70.

I think the plastic long mirror was US only, but I may be wrong.
 

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